Faith-Based Institution Undergoes Tremendous Growth with Advanced Technology
Lessons Learned in Developing a Strategic Partnership with Your SIS Provider.
Vince Johnson: Welcome to the Webinar. We are looking forward to our discussion over the remainder of the hour. We will share how LBC has been blessed with growth in enrollment. We are also going to talk about our current state of implementation of CampusVue and then move on to our next steps with Campus Management.
Karli Grant: Thanks Vince. I would like to start us off by asking if you all can share with us a bit about Lancaster Bible College.
Jeff Hoover: Lancaster Bible College has been around for over 80 years. We were founded in 1933 and as we talk about enrollment growth, the very first class at LBC had eight students in it. And if you look at where we are now, that is significant enrollment growth. But just to give a little bit of history of who we are, over the years we have experienced that growth. But throughout that growth process, we have not lost our mission or vision. And we still believe we exist to educate Christian students to think and live a Biblical worldview, and to proclaim Christ by serving him in the church and society. Over those 81 years, the different phases of who LBC is, is we gained our first approval through the state as a degree granting institution as well as through our regional and national accrediting bodies. We were originally accredited by the Association for Biblical Higher Education and later by the Middle States Association, now known as Middle States Commission on Higher Education. Over the majority of this time period, we were a traditional undergraduate campus consisting of traditional undergraduate programs. But God was calling us to more. In the ’90s, Lancaster, on our Lancaster campus, we started to expand our non-traditional offerings and we did receive approval to offer graduate courses and our first graduate level degree. We also started to offer non-traditional programs at the Bachelor’s level in the adult accelerated format. But what the real kicker is, in 2007, when non-traditional studies was expanded online, and LBC was approved to offer our first fully online degree. As our programs and our Lancaster enrollment has grown, the addition of services and new student service buildings on our Lancaster campus was needed. First was our traditional library, known as our Teague Learning Commons or the TLC. And that opened for use in the fall of 2012. This building anchors the academic mission of our institution. The library is wrapped in a collaborative learning space as well as academic support services and classroom space.
"But as we continue to grow, we continue to work on those strategic partnerships and one of those right now is Campus Management."
Now along with the library and this TLC, our anchor of academics, we also needed to expand our academic services and our dormitory space, as well as administrative space for our faculty departments. And so we have just started a new project this fall and we are going to have a dorm built. And we are hoping that in November, a new academic administration building, the Fry Center, will be started and hopefully in the next 18 months that will be on line as well. But as we continue to grow, we continue to work on those strategic partnerships and one of those right now is Campus Management to help keep us on this mission and vision that we originally had back in 1933.
Karli Grant: Great. Thank you for that historical overview, Jeff. That sets the stage nicely to talk about the challenges that Lancaster Bible College was facing that prompted the search for a new student information system. Can you outline some of those challenges?
Jeff Hoover: Absolutely. Originally, LBC’s initial challenge was a technology hurdle. And it was concerning our Windows servers. We were using a paradox environment for our student information system and we were forced to move to an SQL environment. Knowing that we were going to be forced to make some of these changes, we had to start making a list of items we wanted to make sure that a new system that we would implement would accomplish to help us to continue in our growth process. These included items such as online student and faculty capabilities. We needed our constituents to be able to have access as we were looking to offer online courses and degree programs. We also needed cohesiveness between academic registration, billing and financing aid. Previously those systems did not always cooperate and there was a lot of manual work that had to be done between those. And we wanted something that was very cohesive, and automated, and efficient. Another high priority was reporting functions and the access of student information that was appropriate for all departments in need of our student information system, especially as we really struck on advising, and what does that mean in retaining a student? And so we needed that information available that can be housed in the campus system. Of course, all of this had to fall within the budgetary constraints set upon us for the new student information system. And it was at this point, after due diligence, we partnered with Campus Management.
Karli Grant: Great. Thank you. So we heard that cohesion, automation and reporting were some of those very challenges. If we were to look back over the last seven years since the implementation, what would you say are the results that the institution has experienced?
"So from a centralized location, we have been using CampusVue to help administer all our different expanded locations, as well as our growing enrollment population."
Jeff Hoover: Well, over the last seven years, we have experienced great growth. It was in the fall of 2006 that we first implemented CampusVue Student. At that time, we had approximately 950 total students across all traditional and non-traditional programs and one campus location. As of this fall 2014, we now service more than 1,900 students at seven locations as well as online. So over the last seven years, we have had to integrate many outside technologies and processes to continue to service students here at Lancaster Bible College. To kind of give a quick history of our growth and these multiple locations that we had talked about, at the same point we started using CampusVue, as I had mentioned earlier, we were approved to offer our first fully online degree. Since that time, we now offer many courses totally online and in a hybrid delivery format. And we found that that has really helped in the process of growing our enrollment, that hybrid delivery method. In 2002, we were very excited to partner with the Center for Urban Theological Studies [00:13:29] in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and we are now offering adult accelerated undergraduate degree programs and just recently seminary programs there in Philadelphia. And later, in the spring of ’13, we acquired the programs for undergraduate, graduate and seminary studies. And that is very important, the seminary part of that, in Greenbelt, Maryland and in Springfield, Virginia, two other locations. With the addition of the seminary in 2013, strategic programs in Boca Raton, Florida and Indianapolis, Indiana were started. Most recently, we have partnered with the Memphis Center for Urban Theological Studies and now offer undergraduate and graduate programs in the Memphis, Tennessee area. With all these additional locations, CampusVue has helped us to be consistent in our administration, as well as having some centralized oversight and some key offices for our multiple locations. This includes the Registrar’s Office, the Business Office, and Financial Aid, as well as some student service assistance. So from a centralized location, we have been using CampusVue to help administer all our different expanded locations, as well as our growing enrollment population.
Karli Grant: That sounds like that has been quite a challenge and one that you navigated very successfully. I heard you mention that hybrid or blended delivery of programs was important, adult programs was important, the expansion of your locations and the centralization of services, were all key to your success in the last few years. So Vince, that kind of begs the question from a technology perspective, how have Campus Management Solutions evolved with Lancaster Bible College?
"It is up to our team to provide secure, reliable, easy-to-use scalable enterprise platform."
Vince Johnson: Sure. I have had the privilege of joining LBC four years ago this week. Prior to that, I had spent 30 years in corporate technology and 12 of those years as a CIO running SAP as an ERP for the mid-market. As I look back at the career opportunities I had in the corporate environment, I honestly believe that those experiences were all in preparation for serving our faculty, staff and students here at Lancaster Bible College. There were several lessons learned during those 12 years of running an ERP that are very applicable today and to our environment. The first is that IT should be viewed as an enabler and as an enabler, it is up to our team to provide secure, reliable, easy-to-use scalable enterprise platform. So you say how are we doing in that area? Although we have intentionally moved many of our course systems to the Cloud, CampusVue runs in our dual datacenters on campus here in a VM environment, and we are using a VDI Virtual Desktop to provide secure connection to all of our remote sites. So basically, any PC anywhere. The second is that there must be high integrity in the master data with only one version of the truth. And how are we doing in that area? IT has oversight regarding what input methods are used in CampusVue. We do reserve the right to exclude a third party input in order to maintain integrity of our data. The third is that IT needs to earn a seat at the table to be able to participate in process improvements. And how are we doing there? We have worked very hard to have a subject matter expert that understands the workflow in each and every department and the corresponding configuration of the system. The fourth point is that it is up to IT to make the integration with all of our other subsystems appear to be seamless to our end users across our college and university community. And when we look introspectively at how we are doing there, the majority of all of our college subsystems that touch any student information, it is sourced solely from Campus Shield.
So I was thrilled on my very first day four years ago to sit with Micah Story and see the evidence of an ERP, specifically our Student Information System using Campus Management’s Campus Shield. And coming out of that initial session, we agreed to have an even more focused effort to add necessary production controls around the automation of those numerous interfaces. And I am going to introduce Micah Story. He is our subject matter expert and our Senior Business Systems Analyst that works all day, every day, inside of our Campus Management System. So here is Micah.
"We have strategically positioned CampusVue at the core of our data integration."
Micah Story: Thank you, Vince. As you can see, we have strategically positioned CampusVue at the core of our data integration. This is the first and final authority for the data as we move it in and out of our other systems. From ID cards to library access to meal plans for our resident students, door security, online learning, etcetera, we try to eliminate as much of the manual efforts to keep our systems in sync. You can see all of the systems that we integrate here in this diagram. Another part of the integration that is not represented on this diagram are the regulatory and financial aid updates that are provided directly within CampusVue. We do not have to worry about the financial aid compliance or loan processing or any of the other intricacies that are required when processing those loans, because that is all taken care of for us directly within CampusVue. I should also note that the integration shown here is for all of our students at all of our locations. Back to you, Karli Grant.
Karli Grant: Thank you both. That was quite a chart. I loved that it show that CampusVue really is the heart of your technology systems. You have both laid a good foundation to talk about the fact that you view IT as an enabler. That data integrity is of the utmost importance. One version of the truth is critical and that everything needs to be sourced from CampusVue. So it sounds like you have a very strong foundation from which to work. I am wondering what are some of your strategic initiatives in the next five years and how would you look to Campus Management as your partner to support you?
"We are looking at Campus Nexus, one of the immediate advantages will be in utilizing the workflow feature that is within the new upgrade."
Vince Johnson: From a technology perspective, you have heard about our enrollment growth in the different areas of 80 years of traditional undergraduate with traditional bricks and mortar campus and that continues to expand. You have heard about the acquisition of our academic programs in the capital region, specifically Capital Bible Seminary. Jeff alluded to the partnerships that we have with Urban Ministries, where LBC is the accrediting institution and then also our online education initiatives. CampusVue has enabled us to scale our enrollment across all of those areas, across multiple locations and as we continue to expand our enrollment and our footprint, we are already making plans to upgrade to the CampusNexus product. And a couple of reasons we are looking at CampusNexus, one of the immediate advantages will be in utilizing the workflow feature that is within the new upgrade. Another is an immediate focus on forms builder, which will address the referential data integrity issue and I kind of alluded that we have literally said no to certain third party inputs, where we were very concerned how they were putting data into CampusVue. We wanted to maintain that integrity of that data. Forms builder will be that point of control that we will be able to do that. We are also looking to implement CRM, which will enable several much needed process improvements moving forward there.
Karli Grant: Great. Thank you, Laurie. The first question that we have is from a technical perspective. What lessons learned could you share with the audience members? So Micah, would you be willing to answer that first from your perspective as a subject matter expert?
Micah Story: Sure. One of the things that we identified early on was to know what the weaknesses were, like the hurdles that we were trying to overcome. It is important to know what the target is in an effort to know what solution you need. Another opportunity that we had for success was to document our processes, maybe identify some weak areas, some things that we could do better. And see what solutions could be available. Maybe we do not have the right solutions, and then that opportunity, we were able to discover and learn what some best practices are. How can the CampusVue product better help us recruit and retain students? So those are just a couple of the lessons that we had when making our initial decision and we have been successful so far with using the CampusVue product.
Karli Grant: Jeff, from your perspective as an administrator, how would you answer that same question? What lessons learned can you share with the audience members?
Jeff Hoover: I would say the main lesson that I learned through this process is you look for an SIS system moving forward and so we were. What processes can we make more efficient? What areas do we need to improve on? But one thing that I did not pay close enough attention to when we were going through this process is okay. All the information that is in my old SIS system, what is going to be the best and most efficient way to get it all over to the new system? And so the lesson that I learned if ever we have to go through this process again or if I am not at LBC anymore and I am at another institution and we go through this process of changing SIS, is really paying attention to the idea. Because of the data integrity, how are we going to move information from one system to the next? So the lesson I learned, we did it manually. And I still go back and forth if that was the right answer or not. But we went with that and we worked everything we had to do to get that done.
"One of the key lessons learned is to develop that strategic partnership with your SIS provider."
Vince Johnson: One of the key lessons learned is to develop that strategic partnership with your SIS provider. We are a small faith-based IT shop, a total of eight of us, including myself, including help desk, supporting dual data centers, supporting all of our locations, supporting several thousand active directory accounts, and all of our core systems. So as you form that strategic partnership with your provider, if you know what is in the pipeline as far as their development, what is in the roadmap of the SIS, those resources of your provider basically become our developers. So again, we are trying to understand the roadmap so we understand what best practices, what options there are there. And then to be able to leverage the new features that are coming out in a timely manner across the college community. So Campus Management has been a key partner since our implementation and they continue to be.
Karli Grant: Thank you, Vince. We do have quite a few questions coming in. Some of them are oriented around your enrollment growth and processes of which confluence of students and faculty use what tools. So I will start with our first one. You mentioned the enrollment growth over the last 18 months. What did Lancaster Bible use to achieve that growth? Jeff, would you be able to answer that for us?
"A lot of what we have done and started to understand is the role of retention in enrollment growth."
Jeff Hoover: Sure, I can chime in here. A lot of what we have done and started to understand is the role of retention in enrollment growth. Most people, if you understand enrollment management, the idea of the enrollment funnel has always been a process that you have had to follow. And the top of the funnel is big, you cast the net wide, and when you cast that net wide, there should be particulars that you pay attention to to know this is who is going to come out at the bottom of the funnel for your enrollment. And what we have learned is that part of that process was always focused on the incoming, but once you have them here, how do you retain them? And so what we have paid attention to for our enrollment growth at all levels because data for non-traditional retention is, there is just not a significant amount of data there. And processes that we, or best practices I should say. And so we have really had to work on the idea of what is retention, especially at our non-traditional programs and levels that has helped us to continue to build our enrollment. So I would really have to say from the academic side and the enrollment management side is we really made a conscious effort to work on retention. And that really laid into the role of working on our advising process for all those levels of non-traditional education.
Karli Grant: Great. Thank you. We have a question here about whether or not the college allows students to enroll in multiple deliveries within the same semester. So can they enroll in multiple programs or multiple types of class delivery in the same semester? And then this is a little bit more complex, but how is financial aid automated and packaged for the student?
"We went to a multi-campus system within CampusVue to help track students."
Jeff Hoover: That is a great question, by the way, and something that we just recently answered because we went to a multi-campus system within CampusVue to help track students. But we were running into students who were enrolling in classes, and my fingers are in quotes when I say this, on multiple campuses, which we did allow. And what we had to do within CampusVue is use the process of parent terms and child terms and in using parent and child terms, we are able to switch on and off which areas of CampusVue see the terms. And so at the academic level, students would register in the child terms and that could be per campus. That could be delivery methods, as we talked about non-traditional online, non-traditional on campus, traditional on campus, graduate schools, seminary courses. But in the process, they could register. Those courses academically are in the child term but the system in the background sees the parent term and that is what the financial aid and business office or billing side sees in CampusVue, is the child term. Or I am sorry. The parent terms and so they can, the parent term then is assigned all these different child terms and then all the information is pushed up to the parent term. And so it looks like it is one cohesive term for financial aid purposes and for business office purposes. And so that the financial aid can then process financial aid off of the parent term, showing that they are full-time, showing that they have the correct amount of credits. But it only shows in that one parent term. And so that is how we were able to get past that and allowing students to register in multiple delivery methods were child terms, and then the financial aid and business office deal with the parent term in terms of the billing method and the billing, as well as financial aid.
Karli Grant: That was a great explanation, Jeff. Thank you so much for that. While we are staying along the lines of working with constituents, could you tell us how do your faculty advisors or do your faculty advisors use the faculty portal or do they use the student system when they are contacting and working with students?
Jeff Hoover: Again, I can answer that. Our faculty advisors actually use CampusVue Student, and we have set their permissions up so that they can view the courses they need, the degree audits they need, and other informational. Our admissions department will upload documents, whether it be other transcripts if they are transfer students, or other needed information that the academic side will need once the student has matriculated and become an active student. And so we have worked the process to train our advisors to use CampusVue Student. In the near future, we will actually open faculty portal for our faculty so that they can see their course rosters and submit grades. But as of right now, we do not use the faculty portal for advisors. We use actually CampusVue Student.
Karli Grant: Okay. Thank you. Vince, I am going to direct this question to you. It is about kicking off the growth that the institution has experienced. Did LBC make a major investment in infrastructure and staffing in advance of the growth or were you able to grow slowly starting with the resources you had at the time?
Vince Johnson: Sure. Great question. You may remember back in the presentation, you saw a picture of our Teague Learning Commons with the sunset behind there. That is a $12,000,000 building of library and collaboration. One of the assessments that I did was business continuity, which received a failing mark on our campus here. So what we were able to do is as part of capital expenditure budget of that building, we put a brand new data center in the basement of that building and upgraded our infrastructure to include all VM hardware, all new storage, and all new Sysco systems. And then we actually replicated that exact same equipment in our old data center so we have on site failover. So we built a high available, redundant system and we were able to do that with capital expenditure dollars associated with the Teague Learning Common. So that put us on a real fast track as far as IT being an enabler with a very robust infrastructure with three nines of uptime, so hopefully that answered the question.
Karli Grant: Thank you, Vince. Micah, this next question is for you. The question is does CampusVue or does Campus Management have a fund raising or advancement module?
"One of the ports that we take out of CampusVue, we can automatically import that right into the Talisma fundraising product."
Micah Story: Yes, absolutely. The Campus Management does have another system. We do use it here. It is called Talisma fundraising. We have been able to use that. Our advancement team – it keeps track of all the gifts. It keeps track of the receipts that are necessary, all of the campaigns and all of the pledges come in. We have chosen that all of our alumni should be added to the Talisma fundraising system, so one of the ports that we take out of CampusVue, we can automatically import that right into the Talisma fundraising product so that when we do our mailings and we make our students aware of the events. It keeps the alumni aware of the events. We will be able to target them right off the top there. One of the other nice features that it can do is it has a direct export to our GL for putting the gifts that come in. We can keep track of that in our accounting software as well.
Karli Grant: Thank you for sharing that information. We have two questions that are similar in nature. Can you please describe to us what the evaluation process was that you went through when you were evaluating software and selected the Campus Management partner and products? I think – Jeff, I know you were on the original search committee.
"The major thing that we looked for is we needed a cohesive singular SIS system that worked together to do all that in one place."
Jeff Hoover: The first thing that we had to consider, of course, was cost. That was – well, I do not know if you say fortunately or unfortunately, but that was one of our major considerations. Not that it was the number one consideration, but we did have to consider cost. Number two, of course as I said earlier, it had to be SQL based, so we had those functionalities that we had to have. The third thing that I will say that was a real factor in the process of weighing through this was the ability to centralize a lot of the processes within the Campus Management system. As I had said previously, we were using different add ons. I guess I can call it add ons. They were not part of our original SIS, but I know we were using another module for financial aid that would pull the information out of our old SIS and then process financial aid that way. We would also, some of the billing was done outside of our old SIS. And so the major thing that we looked for is we needed a cohesive singular SIS system that worked together to do all that in one place. And so that was a major part of our consideration as we went through that process. Lastly, I will say that my interest in the whole process was reporting, as I did a lot of the data downloads. And of course, all of our accreditation reporting, state reporting and things of that nature, I was very interested to know how I could access the data that was in there. And so the reporting structure and being able to get to data, not necessarily in customized reports, but knowing okay, these are the different areas I can pull the information and how I can access it to put it in the presentation. Whatever I had to present it as, whether it be through reports or internally, externally. So those are – the major one was cohesiveness of the entire system doing it in one place. Of course, cost and of course, the reporting function and how we were able to disseminate information in a centralized place.
Karli Grant: That is a great summary. Thank you so much, Jeff. We have another question here that is about your distance learning programs. So I think, Jeff, I will ask the question, ask you to answer it first, and then Micah or Vince, if you want to answer it from the technical perspective, that would be great, too. So the question is can you expand a little on distance learning programs offered at your institution and particularly about the challenges of developing the program and goals set in place over the years.
"What we found was that going to a hybrid approach to that delivery method was much more successful."
Jeff Hoover: For distance ed., that is really referring to online. We never actually had any correspondence or even satellite sites previous to 2012. So with online ed., our President is a great visionary and he knew that that was the future back in the mid-2000s. And so he knew we had to go that direction. And so that was a long process that we worked through. What does it mean to offer that distance learning through online education? What does it look like? Can we replicate what happens in the classroom in the online environment? Those were all of the things that we had to work through and I think we have done very successfully. We now have a dedicated department to online education that helps in the delivery method and in our online learning environment. And setting up courses, making sure we are following all the assessments to make sure that the learning is occurring and things of that nature. The goals for that process, well, number one, when we first started, the goal was to be able to offer fully an online degree. And we are doing that through a bachelor’s program. The demand for the higher levels in the graduate school and seminary for totally online, though other institutions are doing it, what we found was that going to a hybrid approach to that delivery method was much more successful. We have surveyed students. What were they looking for? What did they want? And they liked the convenience of online, that distance learning online. But they still loved the ability to have those face-to-face relationships. And so a lot of what we do in our non-traditional and graduate and seminary courses is a hybrid style of learning where up to 70 percent of the learning happens online and then approximately 30 percent is done face to face. And so one of the benefits of that is it used to be the case that you would only reach maybe 100 miles outside of your centralized campus to reaching students, because number one, even if it was online, who is Lancaster Bible College? And number two, for them to get to campus to take courses or even just the face-to-face services that they might need, the library services or anything like that, it was just too far. But with the hybrid approach, we have actually expanded the distance that people are willing to travel because it is a concentrated hybrid approach to hey, 70 percent is done online and then two to three days are done on campus in a concentrated format. And so that has really helped as we have moved through the process of developing our distance learning through online and hybrid approaches. The goals? We continue to want to offer all of our programs potentially in an online format and so we are slowly working towards that. In our traditional campus, we are offering many, many more courses online, but with our traditional brick and mortar campus, the majority of those students are 18 to 22 year olds. They want the experience of being on campus. So we do not really see that being an online degree process, but in our non-traditional programs, the adult learner, graduate, seminary. We see that happening and so potentially moving to an entire degree online is probably a goal that we have down the line for us academically.
"Up to 70 percent of the learning happens online and then approximately 30 percent is done face to face."
Vince Johnson: From a technology perspective, again, with our eight person IT staff, we have a strategy that we look to enterprise systems so we, and a matter of fact, Micah showed you on the chart, there was CampusVue at the middle that has all of our students. It has all of our courses. There is an automatic feed and sometimes it runs on the hour or on the day, that takes any time a new student is enrolled in a course, it automatically feeds our LMS system. Our LMS happens to be moodle based, but instead of just using the open source moodle, we actually looked to an organization that productizes that, puts all the controls around that. That is at a managed hosted site off of campus and those interfaces run very clean between CampusVue and our LMS. So IT works very closely with our online ed. department.
Karli Grant: Great. Thank you both. Back to the decision factors for selecting an ERP partner. Could you tell us the three factors that led to a selection of Campus Management over the other vendors that you originally considered? And so Jeff, that question would go back to you. And I know that you, you did share before that it was ability to centralize processes, and the cost, and reporting. Were there any other factors that were involved in that?
Jeff Hoover: Those were the main ones. I know it was really exciting for us. I was really excited, to not have to deal with the old paradox system and moving to a more, my goodness, it looked actually new, system. And not that that was hey, I would gone with any system as long as it met our needs. But I was excited in the process of updating, but like I said, cost was a factor, a definite factor. Being able to centralize processes and I need to expound upon that. I mean, that was a goal of ours, but that was a goal when we were only at one campus. And when I say centralized processes, I was just looking for a system that actually within the same SIS system, do billing, do financial aid, do keeping track of their transcript and a graduation audit. But now, with our multiple locations, we have been blessed to have a system that allows us to centralize those processes even when we have campuses in other states. And so I guess that kind of rolls into if we talk about what do you need to look for if you are a small institution. We all know that. I shared with how our enrollment has grown and just even on our brick and mortar campus, we have grown by 33 percent over the last seven years. But I know for a fact that my budget has not increased by 33 percent, nor has my staff increased by 33 percent, or faculty or anything like that. And so we have had to do more with less. And so making sure that your system allows you to be efficient, allows you to centralize those processes, and allows you to be able to manage all those things in one location and allowing to share that information appropriately with the correct permissions I think is key and crucial.
Karli Grant: Thank you. We do have a final question that I would like each of the three of you to answer. And it is sort of that parting comment or that pearl of wisdom that we would like you to leave with our participants today. So I am going to ask each of you what piece of advice would you give to another faith-based institution who is looking for a student information system or for an entire ERP. Micah, would you be willing to answer that first?
Micah Story: I do not know if there is one nugget of truth as much as make sure you know what your needs are and what you want your target to be. And most likely, the answer will become very evident to you. And we have been very happy with the products by Campus Management.
Jeff Hoover: I am going to echo a little bit of what Micah said. Initially, the idea to get a new SIS system was not because we wanted something new. We were forced into it. But it also forced us to start to pull together what do we need a new system to do? What were our shortcomings? Where did we have to get better? I guess we could go back to say what did we need to stop doing? What did we need to start doing? And what did we need to continue doing? And how could our SIS system help us do that. And so I would just say that is key pulling that together. I am kind of echoing what Micah said there. But pull together your list of this is what we need it to do and stick with that. Just because something might be a little less expensive, just because something might fit into hey, our old SIS system, they have a new system that we could purchase and expand. Just because you do not have to stay with that same company, and that is what we experienced. We found that the only company that we were with were not going to meet our needs, even with their new system. And so stick to your guns. When you make that list, stick to your guns.
Karli Grant: Thanks, Jeff. And Vince, finally from your perspective of shepherding the IT Department, what would you say?
"As we pursue the Campus Nexus upgrade, we understand the importance of change management with a project of this magnitude."
Vince Johnson: As we pursue the Campus Nexus upgrade, we understand the importance of change management with a project of this magnitude. And change management and how you communicate internally, and how you get the buy in, that is actually the responsibility of the institution. And it is interesting to note that the dynamics are the same in the corporate environment as they are in a faith-based institution. It is the same challenges. So identifying those internal stakeholders, the advocates, the project champions, is a critical process and make sure that they are not always – the IT folks need to be on board and there is a lot of technology, but this is really about processes, so make sure that you have process champions. In the corporate world, I worked for a CEO and we took change management very serious and he would talk about how painful that could be for an organization to deal with that level change, but at the same time we would joke and talk about carrying the wounded and shooting the stragglers. That tag line is not really appropriate here at LBC in a faith-based environment. But it is important to know who is on board and leading this challenge and who are those that are struggling.
Karli Grant: Great. Thank you so much, gentlemen. We really appreciate the information you have shared with us today. And participants, we hope that you have found this information to be very forthright and valuable for your consideration.